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First activist event I’ve ever organised and I’m so grateful to those who came along to support public housing.

Let’s make Victoria a place where all people have access to a home ❤️🏡

@harrym State housing, counting taxpayers?
I believe that people who do not have their own housing (low income, etc.) should be helped by funds or private organizations, but not by taxes.
And then it turns out that some people cannot buy their own home because their money goes to taxes.

@Kovach ok, I’ll have to say I disagree.

What is tax for if not to help people and society?

@harrym Because taxes take away the opportunity for development.

@Kovach what development? People don’t generally choose to be homeless and yet there are homeless people now. What’s your solution to that?

@harrym I will answer part of the question.
My decision is to create foundations or organizations.
In which all those willing will voluntarily transfer their own funds.
Next, build social housing under certain conditions.
Because when a family is unable, for example, to have a second child, due to the fact that taxes are too high, or part of the money that goes to taxes, they send 3 or more children to the family.
Where is the justice here?

@Kovach where’s the justice in allowing the ultra wealthy who have more money than they ever need contribute nothing to society?

Your solution also misses a few things, firstly the economy of scale needed to build enough supply to house people in need, and secondly that anything like a private organisation has a financial burden that pushes them to reduce costs even if that means cutting corners.

@Kovach thirdly, this gives no certainty to people, how can you plan for your life when you know you could be kicked from your home if you’re organisation runs out of money? Fourthly, it’s actually cheaper on our tax system to house people than it is to have them sleeping on the streets.

On a moral, societal, and economic level public housing is the better option.

@harrym Unfortunately, I am not literate, and it is difficult for me to express my opinion.
And also that I use a translator, it is difficult to communicate.

@Kovach ok, well I’ll just finish the convo by saying that I hope you open your self to the idea of a collective society where we help the most vulnerable. Have a good one.

@Kovach @harrym I find it fascinating that two people, both wanting the same goal, but disagreeing on how to get there, both often assume the other person doesn't want that goal

Like, we ALL want to promote personal development

You think that not having a safety net will spur people on to develop themselves

Other people think that not having a safety net will make personal development too risky

But you have the same goal!

@solitaryvirtue @Kovach I don’t know that we have the same goal… perhaps they would correct me, but I would see the gap between the rich and poor crushed to a minimum. I have the impression that Kovach feels like billionaires should have to pay nothing back to the society they used to become wealthy.

@harrym @solitaryvirtue @Kovach How about a higher level of tax on people with very high incomes (e.g. people who could easily afford to buy more than one expensive house) but at a level that wouldn’t de-incentivise them to work?
The right to own hundreds of times more stuff than other people is not more important that the right to have basic shelter. It isn’t necessary to tax medium-income earners into poverty to ensure everyone has somewhere to live.

@PeterWyrm @harrym @solitaryvirtue And society somehow thanked Tesla, Edison, Faraday, Ford...
Why does someone owe something to someone, it's my problem that I rent an apartment.
Do I have to blame Elon Musk and Bill Geitz that because of them I don't have my own home?
The state will never agree to remove the tax from 90% of the population.
Your dialogue reminds me of the slogan of the Bolsheviks, who killed the wealthy and gave the poor and their own more than they earned.

@Kovach @harrym @PeterWyrm

> Do I have to blame Elon Musk and Bill Geitz that because of them I don't have my own home?

Yes

> The state will never agree to remove the tax from 90% of the population.

Nobody asked it to

> Your dialogue reminds me of the slogan of the Bolsheviks, who killed the wealthy and gave the poor and their own more than they earned.

Okay, and that's bad?

@solitaryvirtue @harrym @PeterWyrm //// Do I have to blame Elon Musk and Bill Geitz that because of them I don't have my own home?

Yes////
NO, this is the fault of the state and its taxes.

//// Your dialogue reminds me of the slogan of the Bolsheviks, who killed the wealthy and gave the poor and their own more than they earned.

Okay, and that's bad?//////

It is clear, the Ukrainian people were destroyed like this, selected and given away...

@Kovach @harrym @PeterWyrm if there were no state and no taxes, but there was still private property, you certainly wouldn't be able to own your own house. Elon Musk might own it, though.

@Kovach @harrym @PeterWyrm and are you telling me that the Bolsheviks killed the Ukrainians because the Ukrainians were wealthy? I don't remember it going like that.

@Kovach @harrym @solitaryvirtue Kovach, you asked “Why does someone owe something to someone?” For me, the answer is because we are human.

@Kovach Mate you have it the wrong way around. Where @harrym and I live the state exempts landlords from paying property taxes, and income tax is progressive so low income earners pay proportionally less tax or none at all.

It’s the state’s tax regime that is making home ownership and even rent unaffordable.

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